The Day After the Day After

Adi Ronen-Argov (★), Ayala Shalev (☆) – A conversation after hearing about the Hostages’ Release.

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What’s going on here?

☆ Hey Adi, what a morning did we wake up to today, huh?

★ Totally. And yet, I’m very conflicted.

We’ve been in a long period where there’s a real attack on the connection between reality and fake. So on one hand, I genuinely feel relief that the hostages will be returning, but on the other hand, maybe because of the role of the prophet of rage at the gate that I took, I’m scared to let go. I’m afraid of the Israeli need to move on, to ignore, to erase what happened, or to wash it away with different names, without really dealing with what happened here in the last two years. I believe recognition and attunement are necessary conditions for repair, for atonement. And I don’t see it happening.

☆ Yes, I’m in exactly the same place. I’m shaking. Alongside the joy and relief from the hostages’ return, I so don’t trust the deal-makers. Honestly, I see a grown-up baby and a polished liar stitching some agreement without the partner to this deal even present, not because they really care. It’s like a game to them, each wanting something else from it. So they made something on the surface, but where’s the depth? The consideration of both sides’ needs? The dive into the precise details so important amid this huge distrust? I don’t see how any real, good agreement can come out of this, one that truly offers long-term solutions.

★ Yes. And even before real peace, is this truly the start of recognition? Recognition of others’ right to exist? Of their humanity? Of the injustice done to them? Of the ongoing oppression? We both follow what’s happening in the West Bank, for example, and there the situation is shockingly worsening, with no justice, no law. When I write the section about the West Bank in the Daily File, the settler attacks on Palestinians, backed by the army, only keep growing.

There’s a deep, basic erasure of humanity and gaslighting there. And I fear that once there’s relief with the hostages’ return, the call to end fighting will fall silent. Like the hostages’ return will be a free pass to continue the destruction of Gaza. They don’t see the people themselves, their needs, their lives.

☆ And I’m not making this up. It’s exactly what happened after the last ceasefire, and it wasn’t even hidden. Smotrich, a senior government minister, said it from the start – that once the hostages are returned, we’ll go after them again. That’s a shocking mindset, and it’s exactly what I don’t see changed.

Amid all the absurdities we experience every day, there was a moment when they said Tony Blair would be appointed to manage Gaza, basically. Of all the people in the world, they chose the British guy. Like, “Let’s bring back the mandate.” It shows how unaware or uninformed they are, because for Palestinians, the 1917 Balfour Declaration is seen by many as the start of their disaster.

A Deep Change Must Happen

★ I want to add two points here that represent a shift from what was before, and maybe a bit of optimism. Change happens when young people wake up, and I feel that young people worldwide have awakened. Everything is very fleeting, but basically, Israel was founded on Europe’s sense of guilt. Now Palestine is gaining recognition again and again, which I think will also strengthen the Palestinians themselves because they’re getting acknowledgement. We also see that countries around the world understand more of what’s happening here and support the establishment of a Palestinian state more than ever before.

That’s one thing.

And the second – The United States, which supplied weapons for all this and essentially maintained it, is now, on Trump’s whim, ordering to stop. For the first time among all the rounds of agreements – one in November 2023, the second in January 2025 broken by Israel in March – the agreement’s instruction is to cease fire even before the hostages are returned.

☆ And yet, I still can’t see change. I look at us, Israeli Jewish society. Yes, there is still ignorance – intentional, much due to the media’s cooperation in hiding the horrors in Gaza – but still, after two years, people know what’s happening there. They know about the level of bombings, the death tolls, they know that even when told to evacuate, people have nowhere to go, no way out… they know, but they don’t let it become part of their lived reality, they don’t want to recognize the enormity of the disaster; they know but still refuse to grant it emotional validity, to feel it in order to grasp the horrific human experience...

★ Right. Validation is very important. Psychologically, in therapy, what do the therapists do? They validate the patient’s feelings. And that alone is healing. Especially in this unclear situation where we all feel so confused. It’s the opposite of gaslighting. “Yes, you exist.” There’s a beautiful quote from the book Montedidio, by the Italian writer Ari De-Luca, where the child says, “Maria says I exist, but what do you think – if she didn’t say it, I wouldn’t know I exist?” So no, you need someone else to tell you you exist.

So I think that’s what Palestinians are receiving from the world right now. Especially the demonstrations in Europe. Also the flotilla with the 44 boats – it had a validating effect. They knew they wouldn’t reach Gaza, but it gave validation by sparking huge protests, which is empowering.

And what’s our role now?

★ Bottom line, I think our role is even more important now: not to let Palestinians be forgotten within Israeli society, to keep reporting, to go on giving faces, stories, and recognition to the people themselves, personally, to fight dehumanization, and to join all the struggles of the Palestinian society in Israel. I highly recommend reading Dr. Lee Mordechai’s article (in Hebrew) related to this, called Even After War, We Must Keep Acting: Here’s How.

☆ This is truly one of the crazy phenomena showing how much the right wing has succeeded and how their worldview dominates. This week, a meeting was held of all the leaders of the Opposition, without the Arab parties. So how is this “all” the Opposition leaders? The language itself collapses, sobbing, into a corner. It’s madness. I look at it and my jaw drops every time. These are citizens just like you and me. Why ignore them? What is this? This feeds my fear because it’s deep, unconscious racism, and automatic behavioral patterns are dangerous. This thing called Opposition brings no opposition at all. It’s just different shades of right wing. Everything is distorted. And besides being a necessary change, the attitude towards Palestinian citizens of Israel is also much more attainable than changing attitudes towards Palestinians in the West Bank or Gaza. And even that isn’t happening.

★ You know, Lee Mordechai said something really beautiful. He called it a state of mind shift in a broader global perspective, and as a historian, he can say that. He says – yes, inside the Israeli-Jewish society we are a minority, but globally, we are not a minority; we are the majority. There is a majority calling to stop the destruction in Gaza. We need to stop thinking with a minority mindset and start seeing that we’re part of a much bigger movement. That shift is important, it strengthens us.

And it’s important to feel strengthened because we are living in chaos. Chaos breaks down existing institutions, positions, beliefs, everything falls apart. And we must remember that in order to build something new, first the old must be dismantled. So in order o build something new and influence it, we need to stay very focused, clear, and provide information. Only then can we create real change.

The Day After the Day After

☆ The dismantling is hard. You know, I think there’s a distinct, different kind of pain for people like us, who the majority see as traitors. I’ll speak for myself: despite all my opposition to the state’s way – the occupation and the destruction of Gaza – I’m still Israeli, this is my home, I was born here and my children were born here. And this fracture, the shock of seeing my own collective, which I thought I knew, thought I understood where I’m living, thought it was impossible for a government to abandon its citizens like this, yet it continues to govern while dividing, stabbing, and blurring its responsibility for this terrible thing that happened. And it turns out that I was completely wrong. And that discovery is a horrible fracture. It hurts. So I’m afraid to believe. I can’t bear to be hit again by this bombshell of suddenly realizing I live in a society that’s clearly violent but much worse than that… a genocidal society, that supports genocide in so many ways, almost 100%, and justifies it.

★ I understand. This is a very deep identity fracture for me too. And so I think the release of the hostages will bring relief now, surely, but it’s like taking Tylenol – its effect will fade in a few hours.

☆ Exactly. It’s masking the symptoms, not treating the problem, not healing, and that’s exactly what scares me about this agreement. It’s Tylenol, not addressing the deeper issues. And if those remain, the symptoms will return.

It’s like we need the day after the day after. Because the day after happens once the hostages are returned. Okay, and then what? We need change here, in Israel. But there’s no understanding that the only thing that can bring real peace is allowing our partners in this homeland their rightful place, just as we have ours here. What kind of morality or logic is “I deserve it, and someone else doesn’t”? And that’s the logic our society believes in.

There’s also another aspect that really characterizes Bibi – he doesn’t let new leaders grow, out of sheer anxiety over his seat. You might even say if someone starts to rise near him, he immediately crushes them. That also feeds the sense of chaos. The only leadership that somehow managed to rise here – like Brothers in Arms, who held everything together while the government was silent and vanished – doesn’t bring any real change, just like our Opposition. You can’t take away from them that they saved the situation and functioned exceptionally to keep things together. But their "software"? No change. Today they oppose Bibi, and tomorrow they’ll fight his seat preserving wars.

★ Yes. Dictators only see their own reign. Bottom line, when people are ready to kill and die in order to not offend their friends, for some unwritten social contract coded deep inside them, that’s a terrible perceptual distortion. Not seeing life as sacred. They’re willing to sacrifice themselves on that code automatically, without thinking independently.

☆ yalla, Adi, we have to wrap up. A final word? What’s your dream?

★ My dream is to establish a Yad Vashem-style site, in Hebrew, dedicated to the children murdered by us in Gaza. A Yad Vashem, with testimonies, stories, videos, and pictures. There’s nothing like it in Hebrew, in the language of those who caused most of the killing. It would confront head-on the terrible losses.

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